Response to Comment on God’s Will IS Done, March 15, 2019: Anonymous has questions
Dan,
Wow, thank you for such a detailed reply to my question. Interesting.. you have illuminated for me that "Father, let not this cup pass" is basically the exact opposite of what is taught in the church. It's not "I don't want this." It's "I do want this."
Dear Anonymous Anonymous,
Alexander's alternative translation, "I AM, I AM. To this I was destined," reinforces to me Carl F. Rehnborg's hypothesis (Jesus and the New Age of Faith) that at least one of the Anointed at the end of the Season of Grace correctly perceived that all of the promised benefits of the Messiah come AFTER he has sacrificially died in atonement (chapter 24, Caesarea Philippi and following), and intentionally gave himself to become the Messiah! He strengthened himself with an “angel” and said, “if it was not your will, this would pass away.” I.e., I am going on with it. For the crucifixion of the Ineffable (!) must be manifested. One died for all, thus all died: "as the Beginning, so the End." As that anonymous anointed one we call "Jesus" is the head of his class of Consciousness, we get to join his sacrifice in faith as that class, and to reap the benefits. But he did not do it as himself, but as Jesus, who is YHWH. Sorry. It's complicated.
I kind of don't understand how "God's will" would be an issue at all in a Neville context, since Neville claimed that man is God (God fell asleep in the skull of man).. therefore how can anything desired NOT be God's will?
Like the post's title, God's will IS done. For everything is moving us to the end desired. But not everything is that end.
Also interesting what you say about God's will shifting from Neville being in the Army to being in New York. Where ever we are, it must be God's will. How can it not be? Because Neville's imaginal act changed God's will? Or because Neville was God and changed his own will.
Every state imagined is a potential. Every potential is its own road to the end. All roads lead to the end. We are each on a road. Waking up, we get to choose deliberately which one we want to be on.
If God's will is constant change, constant transition... sounds like we can never really relax. I manifest something... and then it is temporal.
See Bullinger on Abel (page 8, chapter 4 verse 2).
What do you make of "the carnal mind" versus whatever the opposite is? The spiritual mind? Or more specifically, what do you make of conscious thoughts? Neville and the Bible say: All of creation is finished. All. of creation. The word "all" includes everything.
Somewhere in my posts is my personal story of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. I was God consciousness who became joined with a man's mind and body. I came to think I was the man and his mind. Big need of repentance there.
I believe "creation" is the imaginal state: God saw everything completed in the six days imaginally. Everything to the end has been imagined by the Ineffable. You are not going to surprise It in anything that you do. Manifestation of what has been imagined is another thing altogether, for it is the EXPERIENCE of what has been imagined and is running eternally.
So that means to me that, every conscious thought I've ever had or will have is part of that finished creation... the conscious thoughts we are supposed to be steering, to be watch-dogging (e.g. "Mental Diets"). But if all of creation is finished and that includes conscious thoughts, then am I really in control of them? IS it possible they are all predestined? How can I choose a conscious thought if creation is finished?
You choose whether you are going to do them or not. It is "to this I was destined," not "to this I was predestined."
Who or What is the mechanism that is making the conscious thought selection? (which we know are also very habitual, learned, and in a sense emanate from the so-called subconscious beliefs).
Psalm 37:4. God, from that same subconsciousness, gives us the desires of our hearts. Trust in him, and he will bring them to pass.
If I am the "operant power," as Neville words it, does that not imply separation from God? There is God's finished creation which exists fourth dimensionally, and then there is some external being - me - selecting from finished creation via conscious (which implies chosen) thoughts.
The power IS God. How does being God imply separation from God? There is not us AND God. God is one, and that one INCLUDES us in it. Advaita is "without division: not one, but not two." There only seems to be separation due to our amnesiac ignorance-limited perception. We are not external to God. And again, "creation" is an imagined GOAL. "Jesus" is God's get-us-there.
Or perhaps when I choose to steer my thoughts from one thing to a new direction (if I'm able to manage that), maybe I just think I'm making the choice to do that, but that too is predetermined?
Nothing predetermined is predone. The operant power has to DO it.
BTW, I have definitely listened to "Unless I Go Away" in Neville's own voice many times. It's a favorite of mine. It has brought me a sense of comfort amidst extreme loneliness.
"And for those of you who adhere to me,
and my words take hold* (adhere, become strong) in you,
Whatever you wish* (are satisfied with) to ask for,
you shall have. By this the Father is glorified,
that you bear* (bring) plentiful fruit" (John 15:7-8 Alexander).
Consider how devoted Neville was to those words.
By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:38 PM
And Dan Steele
Wow, thank you for such a detailed reply to my question. Interesting.. you have illuminated for me that "Father, let not this cup pass" is basically the exact opposite of what is taught in the church. It's not "I don't want this." It's "I do want this."
Dear Anonymous Anonymous,
Alexander's alternative translation, "I AM, I AM. To this I was destined," reinforces to me Carl F. Rehnborg's hypothesis (Jesus and the New Age of Faith) that at least one of the Anointed at the end of the Season of Grace correctly perceived that all of the promised benefits of the Messiah come AFTER he has sacrificially died in atonement (chapter 24, Caesarea Philippi and following), and intentionally gave himself to become the Messiah! He strengthened himself with an “angel” and said, “if it was not your will, this would pass away.” I.e., I am going on with it. For the crucifixion of the Ineffable (!) must be manifested. One died for all, thus all died: "as the Beginning, so the End." As that anonymous anointed one we call "Jesus" is the head of his class of Consciousness, we get to join his sacrifice in faith as that class, and to reap the benefits. But he did not do it as himself, but as Jesus, who is YHWH. Sorry. It's complicated.
I kind of don't understand how "God's will" would be an issue at all in a Neville context, since Neville claimed that man is God (God fell asleep in the skull of man).. therefore how can anything desired NOT be God's will?
Like the post's title, God's will IS done. For everything is moving us to the end desired. But not everything is that end.
Also interesting what you say about God's will shifting from Neville being in the Army to being in New York. Where ever we are, it must be God's will. How can it not be? Because Neville's imaginal act changed God's will? Or because Neville was God and changed his own will.
Every state imagined is a potential. Every potential is its own road to the end. All roads lead to the end. We are each on a road. Waking up, we get to choose deliberately which one we want to be on.
If God's will is constant change, constant transition... sounds like we can never really relax. I manifest something... and then it is temporal.
See Bullinger on Abel (page 8, chapter 4 verse 2).
What do you make of "the carnal mind" versus whatever the opposite is? The spiritual mind? Or more specifically, what do you make of conscious thoughts? Neville and the Bible say: All of creation is finished. All. of creation. The word "all" includes everything.
Somewhere in my posts is my personal story of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. I was God consciousness who became joined with a man's mind and body. I came to think I was the man and his mind. Big need of repentance there.
I believe "creation" is the imaginal state: God saw everything completed in the six days imaginally. Everything to the end has been imagined by the Ineffable. You are not going to surprise It in anything that you do. Manifestation of what has been imagined is another thing altogether, for it is the EXPERIENCE of what has been imagined and is running eternally.
So that means to me that, every conscious thought I've ever had or will have is part of that finished creation... the conscious thoughts we are supposed to be steering, to be watch-dogging (e.g. "Mental Diets"). But if all of creation is finished and that includes conscious thoughts, then am I really in control of them? IS it possible they are all predestined? How can I choose a conscious thought if creation is finished?
You choose whether you are going to do them or not. It is "to this I was destined," not "to this I was predestined."
Who or What is the mechanism that is making the conscious thought selection? (which we know are also very habitual, learned, and in a sense emanate from the so-called subconscious beliefs).
Psalm 37:4. God, from that same subconsciousness, gives us the desires of our hearts. Trust in him, and he will bring them to pass.
If I am the "operant power," as Neville words it, does that not imply separation from God? There is God's finished creation which exists fourth dimensionally, and then there is some external being - me - selecting from finished creation via conscious (which implies chosen) thoughts.
The power IS God. How does being God imply separation from God? There is not us AND God. God is one, and that one INCLUDES us in it. Advaita is "without division: not one, but not two." There only seems to be separation due to our amnesiac ignorance-limited perception. We are not external to God. And again, "creation" is an imagined GOAL. "Jesus" is God's get-us-there.
Or perhaps when I choose to steer my thoughts from one thing to a new direction (if I'm able to manage that), maybe I just think I'm making the choice to do that, but that too is predetermined?
Nothing predetermined is predone. The operant power has to DO it.
BTW, I have definitely listened to "Unless I Go Away" in Neville's own voice many times. It's a favorite of mine. It has brought me a sense of comfort amidst extreme loneliness.
"And for those of you who adhere to me,
and my words take hold* (adhere, become strong) in you,
Whatever you wish* (are satisfied with) to ask for,
you shall have. By this the Father is glorified,
that you bear* (bring) plentiful fruit" (John 15:7-8 Alexander).
Consider how devoted Neville was to those words.
By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:38 PM
And Dan Steele
posted by Daniel C. Branham-Steele at
1:29 AM
1 Comments:
Thank you :)
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Anonymous, at 5:27 PM
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