Sandra: My First Response

I received an email from Sandra in Australia. She posed some questions, expressed some opinions, and wanted some feedback (see below). Sandra gave me some things to think about, and I had a significant breakthrough in my own thinking about why Jesus, if He did incarnate as reported, left no tangible evidence (see second response, forthcoming).
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Hello, Sandra.

Give me a few minutes to respond to all this. Yes, you are on to something. Basically, it is called eschatology, but I am sure you already know that. Trying to figure out the end-times can almost drive you mad, but it is part of the exercise we have been given (Ecclesiastes 1:13). There is so much here to respond to--my comments may seem scattered as I first hit this, and then that.

Advice: Do not think certain things are untrue simply because you do not know HOW they are true. I constantly remind myself that my God is too small...because I am too stupid. There IS a Jesus, a quality of the real God's being. Has that quality ever been a man? It has never been gone from us, so the question is how--in what way--does It ever become more in a man? Jesus is a divine quality which can take form to appear and to speak, physically and in the imagination. That is definite, as these have happened to BILLIONS of people. It does not hurt to be surrounded by this quality with our gladness being full.

Please look again at Daniel 9:24ff. Seventy sevens for said purposes to be concluded. I call this period the Season of Grace (from a comment by Victor Alexander). Its history from the going forth of the proclamation to the ascension of its subject is a PICTURE, a snapshot of the age, an illustration of the program--the whole age in a 490-year prophetic miniature. The end of the historic age (our future) is at the end of the illustration (in our historic past; i.e., the advent). I believe the Season did happen; I just do not know HOW it happened. Did the conscious quality, YHWH, transcend into a physical person? Did an inspired, morally perfect man take on the role? Was a devout congregation illumined? Was it all symbolic correspondence to a vision of the real? I don't know--I wasn't there. But I know that the Guy talks to me, and I know honest people who have physically seen Him, so I figure something--any or all of the above--actually happened. He personally says it did. I do not know HOW it happened, but I do not like calling Him a liar in any case (I'm allergic to leprosy).

Prophets who SEE future events report what they have seen, what (for them) DID happen, hence the prophetic perfect. I need to add that these things may be apocalyptic, kind of supercharged to the extreme for emphasis. E.g., our struggle with temptation seen as a great war in heaven.

I have another perspective on the end-times. I believe we have been in a running end since what transpired at the Beginning--the event of creation. There the Son of God (i.e., imagination) "flipped" from just being spirit into being a dimensional, physical reality. This flip entailed the newly created form being made ignorant of what it actually is by amnesia. Ignorance is a fault, a sin. It is unlike God, BUT IT WAS AND IS GOD'S fault. Our life as an ignoranced being (for we have all flipped into this amnesia) is for the resolution of what God did. He knew this when He became, for which He forgave us as He became. It all happened at the Beginning, as the Son of God WAS the Beginning crucified on the flesh. Now we are following the process the Divine went through in Its own development prior to creation--discovery, maturing, growth, sanctification. He BECAME what we are BECOMING.

I am not at all sure that the end TIMES actually lead up to an end END. The times themselves are an ongoing end towards a gradually accomplished perfection. We are going through the experience of time, but God's reality transcends time, where beginning and end are the same. Maybe that is because He has already thought through every potential, possibility, constraint and resolution that will lead up to His full manifestation, and presently we are simply bringing every thought He has had into manifestation to get there. He is eternal, so why would it ever end? We will always be able to imagine something new, because He will. We will always be becoming more like Him--whatever He, the Ineffable, is. Good God we have a long way to go.

Thank you for writing and asking. More to come.

Dan Steele

PS: I believe the end you see as Christ's first actual appearing ("what if Jesus has not come yet and is meant to come in the last days to fulfill New Testament and Old Testament scriptures for the first time?") occurred at the beginning, was in fact THE beginning. That was the Beginning Jesus was in Genesis 1:1. It is just being played out in the process of time. 
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From Sandra:

Dan, I believe I’m on to something.

I don’t believe Jesus came 2,000 years ago, but please hear me out.

As Gospel of Thomas says:

"Ask without hidden motive and be surrounded by your answer, be enveloped by what you desire. That your gladness be full."

Could the NT have been written as a prophesy to be fulfilled in the last days? (I know lot of the NT has been added to and fabricated, but I think the truth in it can be found.) So the writers/prophets wrote this same way as praying as if the Jesus event had already occurred? Although Paul kept saying he is to come. Have you ever heard of 'prophetic perfect'? Many scholars say many parts of the bible were written as if things had occurred because they were so sure the event was going to take place.

So I am saying, what if Jesus has not come yet and is meant to come in the last days to fulfil New Testament (NT) and Old Testament (OT) scriptures for the first time? That is what Jesus’s job is, to reveal the truth about the scriptures (he comes once at the end of the age). Please see scripture to back up what I am saying.

The bible and other sacred books are telling us the mystery, which was kept secret for long ages will be revealed through the prophetic writings in the last days (Rom 16:25). The mystery is about Christ (Col 4:2), who appeared once (and only once) for all at the end of the age (Heb 9:26) to testify to the truth (John 18:37) and undo all that the devil has done (1 John 3:8). The devilish works began after a father had lost his son, and he began honouring him as a God. Over time, this godless custom grew and hardened and received worship by command and princes. They would carve images in honour of him. Even people who did not know him spread his cult and it became observed by law. This became the pitfall for life (Wis 14:12).

Jesus doesn’t come to abolish the law and the prophets but comes to fulfil them (Eph 6:12). The main aim for Jesus and his saints is to make the Word of God fully known, which is the mystery hidden for ages and generations, and made manifest to them (Col 1:24). In the OT it also says the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end (Dan 12:9).

Jesus is not happy with the scribes and Pharisees blaming them for shutting up the kingdom of heaven (Matt 23:13) by exchanging the truth of God for a lie, and worshipping and serving the creature rather than the Creator (Rom 1:25). The bible tells us to leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and faith towards God (Heb 6:1).

Before Jesus comes, the rebellion must come first and the man of lawlessness is revealed (object of worship who takes his seat in the temple of God). For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work and Jesus will destroy him with the breath of his mouth and by his appearing and coming (2 Thess 2:1).

Jesus talks about the tribulation (events of end days) and tells his disciples that their generation will not pass until all these things takes place (Mark 13:30). Jesus also says that there are some standing there who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God has come with power (Mark 9:1).

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy (Rev 19:9).

Please see the following scriptures:

Hebrews 1:1 In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

Hebrews 9:26 If Christ had offered himself many times, he would have needed to suffer many times since the time the world was made. But he came to offer himself only once. And that once is enough for all time. He came at a time when the world is nearing an end. He came to take away all sin by offering himself as a sacrifice.

Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy we have been born anew to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and to an inheritance, which is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are guarded by faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Peter 1:20 He was destined before the foundation of the world but made manifest at the end of times for your sake. Through him you have confidence in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory so that your faith and hope are in God.

Ephesians 1:9 For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret for long ages but is now disclosed through the prophetic writings is made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about obedience of faith-to the only wise God be glory for ever more through Jesus Christ! Amen.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

On the origins of the world 125:15 Now the Word (Logos) that is superior to all beings was sent for this purpose alone: that he might proclaim the unknown. He said (Mark 4:22), There is nothing hidden that is not apparent, and what has not been recognised will be recognised.

Dead Sea Scrolls, 1 QpHab 7:4-5 and God told Habakkuk to write down that which would happen to the final generation, but He did not make known to him when time would come to an end. And as for that which He said, That he who reads may read it speedily: interpreted this concerns the Teacher of Righteousness, to whom God made known all the mysteries of the words of His servants and Prophets.

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for you neither go in yourselves, neither allow you them that are entering to go in.

The Gospel of Thomas 39 The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (gnosis) and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed those who want to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like the son of man and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

Daniel 12:4 But you Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world as testimony to all nations; and then the end will come. “So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea flee to the mountains etc. And Mark 13:14

Micah 4:1 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established as the highest of the mountains.

Romans 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Matthew 5:17 “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.”

1 John 3:8 It was to undo all that the devil has done that the Son of God appeared.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and faith toward God.

Galatians 4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, so that we might receive adoption of sons.

Luke 22:37 For I tell you this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was reckoned with transgressors’, for what is written about me has its fulfilment.

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John; and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 17:10 And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” He replied, Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the son of man will suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist (Mark 9:11 also).

Revelations 5:6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing as though it has been slain.

Matthew 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place (tribulation-sun darkened, moon will not give its light etc.) and Mark 13:30

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembly to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or word, or by letting purporting to be from us, to the effect that day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God. Do you not remember that when I was with you and told you this???? (I think this sentence has been added later– out of context). And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with his breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and coming.

Wisdom 14:12 The invention of idols was the origin of fornication, their discovery the corrupting of life. They did not exist at the beginning, they will not exist forever; through human vanity they came into the world and hence a sudden end has been designed for them.
A father afflicted by untimely mourning makes an image of his child so swiftly taken, and now he honours as a God what yesterday had only been a dead man, bequeathing initiations to his dependents. Then in the course of time the godless custom hardens, and is observed by law and, by command and princes, the carved images receive worship.
Of those who lived too far away to be honoured in person men would make a portrait from a distance and produce a visible image of the king they honoured, meaning, by such zeal, to flatter the absent as if he were with them. Even people who did not know him were stimulated into spreading his cult by the idealism of the artist; for the latter, doubtless wishing to please the ruler, exerted all his skill to make the likeness finer than reality and the crowd, carried away by the beauty of the work, accorded divine honours to him whom only recently they had honoured as a man. And this became the pitfall for life, that men, whether slaves to misfortune or princely power, should have bestowed the incommunicable name on sticks and stones.

On the Origins of the world And thus when the world had come into being, it distractedly erred at all times. For all men upon earth worshiped the spirits (demons) from the creation to the consummation - both the angels of righteousness and the men of unrighteousness. Thus did the world come to exist in distraction, in ignorance, and in a stupor. They all erred, until the appearance of the true man.

Mark 4:22 “For there is nothing hid, except to be made manifest; nor is anything secret, except to come to light. If any man has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Gospel of Thomas 2 Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All.

The OT prophesied of a Messiah coming in the last days, the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi texts also. I believe the NT is also prophesying about Jesus coming in the last days (for the first time). There are so many other reasons to cast doubt on the Jesus of 2,000 years ago (which really can’t be ignored). This includes:

· Not a single historical mention of Jesus during his whole life (around 4BC-30AD). Not by Romans or by Jews, not by believers or by unbelievers, not during his entire lifetime. Surely someone would have noticed and jotted something down.

· When Christianity began there were a number of uncertainties and disagreements about the historical Jesus, and some Gnostic groups claimed that Jesus had not come in the flesh at all and that he was spiritual.

· Why did it take so long for the gospels to be finally written after the supposed life of Jesus?

· One of the oddest facts about the NT is the fall of Jerusalem (70CE), which was never mentioned once in the NT. If the gospels had been written after this, like most scholars believe, the authors could have used this as history verifying the prophesies of Jesus.

· In Paul’s writings, there isn’t a single mention of the historical story of Jesus.

· Paul said that there were some Christians preaching another gospel to the one they were preaching but how could that be possible only a few years after the supposed crucifixion.

· Luke 2:2 says Jesus was born during a census-not likely that the Romans would require the whole population of the whole country to be involved in a census, let alone the whole world.

· No historical evidence of the city of Nazareth. The Jews’ minor objection to the Christian Messiah was the fact he had been unsuccessful.

· Jesus says “there are some standing here who will not taste death at all until they see the kingdom of God has come with power (Mark 9:1) (the next generation did not see the kingdom of God come).

· There were many messianic prophecies that Jesus had failed to fulfill, so this may be why early Christians therefore taught he would return for a second coming.

· There is absolutely clear evidence running through the NT documents that the early followers of Jesus (Nazarenes) were convinced that they were living very close to the end of the Age (NT Texts on the Imminence of the End).

I did speak personally to Wayne Dyer about Jesus coming in the last days (for the first time). He didn’t say much about it. I hope you have an open mind and can see and interpret the scriptures and find the truth.

I am really looking so forward with hope to talk with you further (as there is so much more).

Kindest regards,

Sandy